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December 01, 2008

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David Ellis

I've read a bit about Tipler's ideas but I've never read his books.

As to the unexplained change of opinion regarding his views on the resurrection and the trinity, do you think he may just be trying to cash in on the success of books like THE CASE FOR CHRIST (as one might suspect he was trying to do with New Age mysticism in the first book)?

I'm not claiming that's what he's doing but it seems like a possibility to consider.


....Tipler's ideas have been occasionally lambasted (a review in Nature called The Physics of Immortality "a masterpiece of pseudoscience"), but he certainly hasn't been written off as a crackpot.


Well, a person can do solid scientific work and still be a crackpot in other respects. From what I've read about it THE PHYSICS OF IMMORTALITY is not that unreasonable if presented as speculation---but if he presents it as being the inevitable or even near-inevitable future of our cosmos then, yeah, he's a crackpot in my book (at least on that issue).

Andy Stites

I started reading this book and did not like it because of 2 objections: 1. He talks much about the many worlds theroy, but does not discuss the moral/ethical dilemmas that come from it. (i.e. how will my reward in heaven be determined if through many worlds I have committed and not committed every sin and righteous act?) 2. The idea that the resurrection is some ethereal computer program does not jive with the scripture's assertions that the resurrection is physical - we will get new bodies.

braak

"Indeed, why should God violate His own laws? He knows what He wants to accomplish in universal history and has therefore set the laws of physics accordingly. Thus, to claim... that a miracle violates physical law is in effect to deny either God's omniscience or His omnipotence... If we cannot trust God to keep inviolate His physical laws, then we cannot trust Him to keep His word that we will one day be resurrected to live with Him forever."

This doesn't seem like a very good counter-argument to an atheistic aggressive approach--isn't the "supernaturalism of miracles" a point designed specifically to refute the omniscience or omnipotence of God?

Which is to say, I guess:

Tipler: "This, in effect denies the omniscience or the omnipotence of God."

Atheist: "That is correct. I am denying that there is an omnipotent entity running the universe."

Though, I guess, since God can do anything, and His actions are essentially impossible to predict, a universe run by an omnipotent, omniscient entity would be practically indistinguishable from one that was running on its own.

Gabriel Mckee

David: I don't think PHYSICS OF IMMORTALITY was an effort to cash in on anything; it's a bit too dense for him to expect it would move many copies. PHYSICS OF CHRISTIANITY... well... yeah, there's an air of dollar signs here and there.

Braak: Tipler's bit about supernaturalism isn't an argument against atheism, but against a trend in theistic thought that has helped to build the straw man that atheism attacks. In fact, he doesn't mention atheism at all there-- I'm just expanding from his criticism.

umbrarchist

Here is another perspective:

http://www.quantumcritics.com/general/star-trek-meets-the-bible.html

Maybe European Christianity has been on the wrong track for 1700 years. Europeans are the Borg of planet Earth after all.

It is certainly bizarre that we don't have information as simple as the distribution of steel and concrete in the WTC towers. How do you build skyscrapers without figuring that out before construction? The Empire State building was completed 70 years before the WTC was destroyed. What kind of computers did they have in 1931? This ain't rocket science.

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